In Which We Discuss a Show: "Whitney" and "2 Broke Girls"

TV Talk continues with a discussion we had a few weeks ago about Whitney Cummings new shows, "Whitney" and (more specifically) "2 Broke Girls".

Andy

I know you are a sports fan, but the new Fall Season in September and October are my March Madness. It try to watch every new show I reasonably can, and keep up with the ones that have promise up until I just can't bring myself to care anymore. That happened this year with "Free Agents" half way through its last episode and “Terra Nova” as soon as I realized they were doing an amnesia episode their third time out of the gate. But the real story of this year’s freshman crop is "The Year of Cummings." Whitney Cummings has TWO new shows this season, and both have already gotten full season pick-ups.



It's easy to disparage NBC's "Whitney," so I think I will: I never thought a show could make me miss "Outsourced." I'll cop to quitting on the show after the third episode, so it is entirely possible the last few weeks could have turned the show into the "Annoying White Girl" version of "The Wire," but I am guessing they stuck with the "She flips out about their fully functional relationship, wears something slutty, talks with her friends with no inner lives about her non-problems, and then decides to ignore the problem she created out of nothing" formula that worked so well... Until they answer the fundamental question of why anyone would want to be in a relationship with this abrasive, needy shrew, the show just won't work. What were your impressions of "Whitney?" What made you give up on it?

But the far more interesting of her shows is "2 Broke Girls." It's not a good show by any stretch of the imagination, but there is a kernel of something special in there. I'm sure I am not the first to say that the big selling point of the show is Kat Dennings and Beth Behr and their chemistry (also: hotness is a factor). The writing on the show is lazy, and the supporting characters are racist caricatures (although I do like the poetry of original SNL cast member Garrett Morris playing a guy who's only attribute is that he seemed cool in the 70s). But the leads are fun and the show gets a couple mild guffaws from me each week. It is quickly catching up to "Glee" as the worst show I can't stop watching.

How about you? Do Han, Oleg and the gang hit you in your funny bone? Are you waiting for these broke girls to realize they own a quarter million dollar thoroughbred racehorse? And why does the show hate hipsters so damn much? Most importantly, would you say 2BG is one of the best of the new season, or just a mildly entertaining diversion? Or possibly both? It has been a shitty year for new shows.

Chad

I am indeed a sports fan, but I would also consider myself a huge TV fan and I generally try to watch most of the new shows each fall. Although I stick primarily to sitcoms -- I could give a shit about CSI: Des Moines or Law & Order: Extra Rapey Division. So, I certainly gave “Free Agents” a chance, and actually had high hopes for it. I, like many people I'm sure, thought Katheryn Hahn was fantastic in “Step Brothers” and was looking forward to her in this. Well, I made it all of one episode before bailing. Turns out my DVR recording conflicted with me watching the Milwaukee Brewers make a run to the NLCS. I planned on giving “Terra Nova” some run this season as well, but then I found out that the premiere was two hours long and it too conflicted with some other shows in my DVR rotation, so fuck that.

Year of Cummings, indeed. There's not much to say about “Whitney” that you and the rest of the internet hasn't already said, so I'll just concur that it's basically terrible and will probably run for five or six seasons. If I gave you an over/under of four seasons on Whitney, what would you take? I'm going over but I hope to god I'm wrong. I watched the pilot and then canceled the series recording because of another conflict with the Brewers playoff run. Since we're in a safe and caring environment here, I would like to admit that I watched every single episode of “Outsourced” plus the movie that inspired the show (which I watched twice, I think). Let's just say I was a fan of Asha.

I'm with you on “2 Broke Girls.” There's definitely a good show in there somewhere. I just hope they find it soon. The first step has to be toning down the blatant racism in the three "ethnic" characters. I have no issues laughing at an Asian guy who struggles with English or an Eastern European womanizer, but through five episodes they're barely even people. Like you said, just racist caricatures that aren't as funny as the writers think they are.

I really like both of the lead actresses but I can't help but cringe at some of the acting. This is something that will hopefully work itself out, but too many times it feels like they're just tossing out one-liners (Kat Dennings especially). You mentioned that the writing was lazy - which may also be a side effect of Whitney Cummings spreading herself too thin - but do you have any thoughts on the acting (either the two leads or the supporting cast)? If some of these things don't get fixed I'm afraid I'm going to end up "hate watching" this thing for the duration of its run.

And now to address some of your questions... I'm really glad you brought up the quarter million dollar racehorse sitting in their back yard. I'm generally pretty willing to suspend disbelief when it comes to sitcoms because sometimes the writers need to take certain liberties for the sake of a joke or to push a plot line along. But when something as obviously valuable as a racehorse is staring you in the eye (quite literally on occasion) it kind of makes the whole premise fall apart. At least in one episode they figured out a way to make some money with it (charging hipsters for rides), and I have no problem that it came from hipsters with money to blow. I also can't help but think that the longer they keep that thing in their 10' x 10' back yard its muscles are going to atrophy and the only value it'll have is at a glue factory. Sell it, hire a jockey and race it, I don't care just do SOMETHING with it because jokes about how you forgot you live with a horse aren't funny.

I'd also like to point out that the little money counter they do at the end of each episode is completely pointless and not at all accurate. Do you remember the wad of cash they were playing with in the walk-in freezer? That was a couple hundred dollars easy, and at the end they only added forty bucks to their savings. However, the wad did bring back some fond memories of Marshall's Wad from the credit card episode of “Undeclared,” so there's that.

Lastly, I would put this show somewhere in the second tier of new sitcoms for the fall season. Off the top of my head, I would say “New Girl” and “Up All Night” are easily better and I'd probably rank “Suburgatory” (which I've only watched one episode of) slightly higher than “2 Broke Girls.” Where do you think it ranks among the season's new crop?

So do you think this show has any real staying power? Will the girls find a way to open their cupcake shop or are they going to insist on drawing that out like “How I Met Your Mother” with the meeting of the mother? Is the laugh track the worst thing ever?

Andy

Extra Rape equals Extra Drama!

That was actually a rejected slogan for TNT.

The movie "Outsourced" is sitting on my DVR, waiting for me to validate it, but I did catch a few episodes of the show, and it was like a lazy Andrew Dice Clay routine. Aren't Indian's funny? They put curry on everything, have too much respect for other people, and their food makes you shit! I guarantee they share some writers with 2BG...

As to your concern about the money, they said flat out that they made enough at that party to pay off Kat Dennings student loans and have 40 bucks to spare. If you're not going to pay attention, then I can't help you.

I'll take the under on "Whitney." Next year they will try to launch a different comedy in that slot, and without the lead in of "The Office," the ratings will plummet faster than your sisters knickers (Sorry. I have been watching a lot of BBC lately).

I think part of the problem with 2BG is the format. We grew up on the standard three camera sitcom, but in a post-“Seinfeld” universe, most TV comedy is shot like film, and the single camera is king. I think there is some part of me that has lost the ability to enjoy the rhythms of a show like 2BG or even something I kind of enjoy like "The Big Bang Theory." Right now those are the only three camera sitcoms I watch, and probably enjoy them less than most of the other shows in my rotation (now that “Entourage” is done). That's not to say that single camera is inherently better, but I feel like I might just be used to it now. How about you? Do you find your eyes roll when a new show is done in the old style? How comfortable are you with reruns of old sitcoms? Do they still hold up?

The claim in the pilot was that they could save enough to open the cupcake shop in two years, so the groundwork is there for a major overhaul if it makes it to three seasons, and, frankly, I think that would be a better show. I'd be far more interested in two chesty young go-getters trying to open a cupcake shop than two chesty young go-getters surrounded by rejects from Carlos Mencia sketches making fun of people for their hats (hats are dumb!).

I'd put this show in the "wait and see" pile, and I think that is why I am sticking with it. Both leads are fun, and can sometimes pull a laugh by sheer force of will, but I think it would take very little to raise the show around them to damn watchable quality. Check with me again after November Sweeps and we'll see how these ladies fare.

Here's something I want to get your thoughts on: The scene this where Max confronts the ex-boyfriend. We were told that he dumped Caroline because she's poor now, but he had no problem hitting on Max. It seemed like she was surprised and a bit off her game when he did, too. I got the feeling she was even flattered. Were we supposed to find him douchey in that scene? Cause I thought that player had game, and seemed interested in Max cause she was a tough ball-buster, money or not. They certainly didn't paint him as the villain I expected. How did you read that scene?

Chad

Dammit! I'm ashamed of myself for missing the part where they actually paid back the student loans. I was probably too fixated on Caroline's huge pearl necklace.

So, from your comment, I assume you expect this to be the final season for “The Office.” Has that actually been confirmed? Because I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see that limp along for two more seasons, especially if they somehow figure the boss thing out.

As an add on to my previous over/under question, which show runs longer, “Happy Endings” or “Whitney?” Keeping in mind “Happy Endings” already has a season in the books, I'm going with that. We'll have to discuss the lovable gang from Chicago soon.

I agree completely with you on the one vs. three camera issue. There are three things that come to mind for me that generally make the one camera shows better. First, the setting. In most one camera shows, the action is shot in real places. Actual houses, offices, restaurants, whatever. Three camera shows are almost always done on a sound stage with a studio audience and laugh track (you heard me). When you can tell a show is in a real place it's easier for me to immerse myself into the story and actually care. Second, the writing and dialogue tends to have a different tone. Comparing something like “Modern Family” to “The Big Bang Theory,” the conversations in “Modern Family” feel like they could actually happen whereas “The Big Bang Theory” is just setup, punchline, laughtrack, setup, punchline, laughtrack. And I actually like “The Big Bang Theory,” I'm just sayin'. The last thing, which I've already mentioned multiple times, is the laughtrack. It's awful, no need to discuss further.

So to answer your questions, I'm not fond of the old style because it just doesn't have that realistic feel to it. And I honestly don't watch many reruns (not even “Seinfeld” anymore), so I don't have much of an opinion on those, but I assume I wouldn't be a fan.

I also agree that it's a better show if they just get to the cupcake shop already. But I'm afraid the writers are going to make us wait it out, and suffer through another season and a half of Oleg and Han.

To your final points, that player absolutely had game, but there's no way it was genuine. That was strictly a hit-it-and-quit-it scenario and I'm a bit surprised you saw it another way. I agree that Max was a bit thrown off and possibly flattered but I don't believe there was any real interest from Trust Fund Ken. He may not have been explicitly villainous but he, and his get-along gang, were definitely douching it up, in my opinion.

Andy

What the hell is with that necklace thing? Gigantic, hideous, and probably hockable at the local pawn shop...

“The Office” will go on and on as long as NBC is the shittiest network on TV. Basically, the only shows that NBC has that are bonafide hits are “The Office” and “The Biggest Loser.” That means those are the shows they will try to pair with new stuff they want to launch. They wanted to get “Whitney” (and “Outsourced” before that, and “Parks and Rec” before that, and “30 Rock” before that) as many eyes as they can, so they put it on after one of their highest rated shows in the hopes that people will stick with it. That means that, assuming “Whitney” is canceled (or even if it is not, but, GOD, I hope it is...), NBC will stick with “The Office” just so they can have something to launch next season’s Great White Hope of a sitcom in the 9:30 slot. Between that and the ridiculous syndication money, NBC is going to keep “The Office” going long past its "sell by" date.

This year seems to be all about bringing back the 90s sitcom heyday. Have a comedian develop a sitcom to star in, where everything is just pulled from their standup act? Tim Allen as a macho throwback in a world gone soft? There is even a show that may not debut at all, but is essentially a remake of "Bosom Buddies," about guys who dress in unconvincing drag to become pharmaceutical reps. Makes me feel all nostalgic for crap... I am sure someone is pitching a show to bring Kristie Alley back to network TV right now...

The other night my roommate wanted to watch an episode of “Whitney” and I invented a drinking game where you take a shot every time she goes off on a riff about some social or sexual concept that is clearly ripped, virtually word for word, from her stand up act. We got pretty damn drunk...

Don't know if you caught it, but a new show debuted Thursday on Showtime called "Dave's Old Porn," in which Dave Attell and a guest comedian or two watch 70s and 80s porn and MST3K the hell out of it. I only bring this up because our favorite punching bag, Whitney Cummings, was his guest on the first episode, and she was actually pretty damn funny. She couldn't keep up with Attell, and she was clearly trying to work stuff from her act into the commentary, but she was likable and got me to laugh out loud more than once. Makes me wonder if the problem with her show is just that they tried to adapt her voice for network TV and it all got too watered down to be funny.

Chad

I have not seen, or even heard of, "Dave's Old Porn" but it sounds like a concept I can definitely get behind. I completely believe that the problem with "Whitney" is that they tried to shoehorn her comedy act into a network show. Prior to being bombarded with "Whitney" promos the only time I had ever seen her was on Comedy Central Roasts (most notably Bill Shatner, I think) and I just assumed her stand up was pretty filthy, adult humor, which is perfectly fine. So I questioned why or how they would be able to fit that into a primetime sitcom. Turns out they couldn't. I feel like this would have been a much more tolerable show if it were on a network like FX and teamed up with "Louie" and/or "Always Sunny". That would have given her the opportunity to be a little truer to herself and maybe drop an S-bomb every now and then. I would also think on a cable network they'd be a bit more forgiving with lower ratings.

Hopefully the powers-that-be in charge of “2 Broke Girls” figure where to take the story before CBS is forced to cancel it. Again, I really like Max and Caroline, their chemistry is solid (although far from perfect) and I think they can get better. Here's to hoping they figure it all out before the diner shuts its doors for good and the cupcake shop never rises. (Get it? Bakery humor!)